#MSCOVID19 RNA vaccines

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We have had details of the Pfizer BioNtech RNA vaccine and now we have heard about the Moderna Virus RNA vaccine. They are both very similar

There were 44,000 people vaccinated with the Pfizer vaccine and 94 people in the trial showed symptoms in the Moderna trial 30,000 people were injected and 95 people got infected.

The major side effect is injection site reactions.

There was no major serious side effects according to the manufactureres

Watch the video to explain the biology of these vaccines. (Up to 10.30min)

I assume this type of vaccine would be seen as suitable for people with MS

There are 5 million doses planned for UK and 30-40million doses of the Pfizer vaccine planned for the UK. Both are two dose studies

Coming up the rear is the Collonial College 🙂 RNA vaccine being developed in the UK. I suspect the pandemic may be over by the time this arrives, but depends on who they partner with, but it may give a UK source of this type of agent.

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MouseDoctor

26 comments

  • Nobody knows how long immunity from the first vaccines will last. The Collonial College RNA vaccine may fill the gap after the first vaccines wear off.

  • Will there be official guidance as to which vaccines are suitable for people with MS because my GP has no understanding of my disease and probably won’t listen to me telling him live vaccines are not a good idea i.e. the Oxford vaccine?

    It worries me because if the Oxford vaccine is live which I believe it is and as that is the vaccine which the government has ordered the most of knowing my luck that will be the one which I get offered

    • Simply insist on a vaccine that is not live. Don’t be afraid of your GP. They can’t know everything about everything medical. They are general practitioners. General means just that. You need to find as much out as you can about the vaccines. BartsMS is a good place to start, but there are many reputable websites you can use. If you don’t feel listened to, take steps. Patient panels or registering at another practice are two options. I believe I will not merely be able to avoid the Oxford vaccine, but take active steps to get an mRNA one. Don’t delay. Talk to the surgery and your neurologist/MSnurse now. Arm yourself with the knowledge you need.

      • Thanks for that yes I am always questioning my GP but I wondered if there would be something official which we could show to the GP he perhaps something from the MS Society for example

    • There will be guidance based on hearsay…this simply needs to tested.

      The Oxford vaccine is probably a no no based on fear that some how the chimpanze virus can get enough information to replicate. It is live but is replication incompetent so it gets n a cell once but a you say they have ordered 100 million tests.

      Next question is why was the J and J trial stopped. In the Oxford trial there was a case of demyelinating disease. There was an adverse event in the J an J trial was it a demyelinating disease too.

      • MD – Is there anything patients can do to pressure or advocate the MS drug companies to test the COVID vaccines in their DMT populations?

        I know this is a futile endeavor; however, I figured it cannot hurt to ask. I suspect they might not want to know the answers (similar to ADA), since it could ultimately hurt their bottom lines $$.

        Guess they expect us to cross our fingers and wait for the data to emerge. Unbelievable! They use us as test tubes for the DMTs and now for COVID. Be nice if they were a bit more proactive.

        • I dont know. It seems to me that it is this something that every company should be doing and particularly the companies with depleting agents.

          You can do something and that is move with your feet.

          It is clear that the MS world has gone B cell depleting and this is why we have the most clear data on COVID-19 from the CD20 depleting agents. They increase COVID-19 risk…or do they? The companies will now be fire fighting for damage limitation to play this down. It is time to rip up rule number one of pharma club “Do not diss your own product” and rather than waiting for us “academics” to give them the bad news that their product is not vaccine ready, do the experiment your self and then you can manage the bad news and tell people how to make it good news

  • The It’s reassuring that no adverse outcomes noted, but were the the study participants vetted to meet criteria of being ‘young, fit and healthy?’

    • Remember the size of these studies Pfizer 44,000 individuals, Moderna 30,000 individuals they are not all youngsters as we know they both work in young and old. The pfizer was tested 18-55 and 65-85 the moderna 56-76 and greater than 71 years old

  • I don’t see much reason to believe the RNA vaccines would be an issue in MS (at least assuming them to be safe otherwise).

    I do wonder about efficacy in patients on anti cd20 regimes though… Do they have tithers to check if the vaccine is doing anything (I remember doing those with hep B before going on ocrelizumab)?

    • The vaccine makes T cells specific for SARS-CoV-2 the ones in MS will have a different target, at present there is no reason why a vaccine to SARS-CoV-2 should effect reponse of T cellls in MS

      • If we understand how this RNA vaccine will affect T Cells why haven’t scientists discovered how to reprogram T Cells that are injurious to the MS population? Second question, do we have any evidence that participants in either study have active MS or other diseases that could potentially worsen by rouge T Cell behavior? Third question, If IGg subset 2 is compromised (low) and it has been determined that the body cannot mount immunity to flu/virus as evidenced by repetitive measles shots that do not take Proven by titter test, how will this vaccine be different? Appreciate your responses.

        • (i) THE RNA makes protein the protein is immunogenic and sensitizes T cells….there is no reprogramming it is immunology 101

          (2) There is no solid data that shows that vaccinations cause or worsen MS. However this has to be monitored

          (3) The flu changes its coat and this is why you need a different vaccine each year. I have only had measles once you do not get repetitive measles shots

          (4) Time will tell if you need to re vaccinate…if you do it is like the flu.

          • Thank you. I have actually had repetitive measles shots. I cannot mount immunity to measles per the immunologist. I wonder how the measles vaccination compares to the new covid19

  • “coming up the rear”? Um, no thanks. I don’t much care for shots, but I think I would opt for an injection over an enema. Let’s all pray for the success of the Pfizer/BioNTech and Moderna vaccines.

  • If DMF decreases T cells (and especially CD8+), is it a good idea to have a vaccine increase your T cells? Just ‘assuming it’s safe until proven otherwise’, does not sound very appealing…

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