#MSCOVID19 Don’t be a COVIDiot when you get the vaccine

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There is some concern that the effectiveness of the BioNTect vaccine based on news coming out of Israel.

The UK took the rather, in my opinion, mad decision to extend the second dose from 3 to 12 weeks for the Pfizer vaccine to make it more like the Astrazeneca /Oxford vaccine. So now we need to know how much protecion you get from one Jab of vaccine

But the stats on the News from Israel suggests that the efficacy of one dose is just 33%. However, if we look at the BioNTech vaccine as you can see there was essentially NO protection for at least 10-14 days after the vaccine in the trials. So it is working better than expected

walsh et al. 2020

But you should not do what one of the Professors did and go to the Gym 3 days after having the vaccine. You may be as “bright as a button” but if you have “no common sense” someone may suffer and it could be a loved-one.

Getting the vaccine should not signal a free for all….let’s party. But I suspect that is indeed what has happened

In the BioNtect/pfizer study the protection between first and second dose was 52% (second row down below) so from 2 weeks (33% israel) to 3 weeks (52%) and maybe longer goes up to 80% and get the second booster its 95%. 7 days after the second dose

Now the Israeli data is based on 200,000 people and not 40,000 people vaccinated, but a limited effect at two weeks is seen with the Moderna vaccine too. See the graphs don’t part until 2 weeks.

The protection data is near idential to to the BioNTech/Pfizer stuff. Protection 14 days after one dose is about 50% and more if you exclude the failers

However at 2 and three weeks it is still not optimum for both RNA vaccines. Look at the graph below and at 3 weeks you can see there is an antibody response (left graph below) but at 21 days (right graph below) it is not highly neutralizing which means blocking the virus from entering cells (i.e. stopping infection.) This takes time and a boost of the second Jab. But levels will rise and we dont know how high these levels need to be.

Lets look at the Moderan vaccine where the data is clearer. Protection from one dose between week 1 and 2 is 50% and one dose is about 80% if you don’t get infected straight after vaccination

clinical dose is 100 microgrammes The neutralization level is lowish until you get the second dose
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2032195

You can see antibody level rises from day 15-29 and plateaus so the second jab does not too much but you need time to get the strong antibody response, which gives protection from infection (The graph is a Log scale going from 100 to 10,000 to 1,000,000). The seccond jab is going to help the antibody response maintain itself . The Pfizer vaccine is probably abit slower because you get 30 microgammes with pfizer vaccine and 100microgrammes with Moderna.

So take precautions after vaccination to give it time to work, Remember whilst your vaccination may protect you from hosptialization and death, it may not stop infection or stop you from passing on infection, although it should limit this

Now the Astrazeneca vaccine. You can see the protection takes about 2 weeks after one dose (See the yellow). Production has been abit slow as I think Pfizer must have bought all the glass vaccine bottles

Prime is one dose, Prime Boost is 2 doses

Today I got a circular from the British Society for Immunology asking for Immunologists from ethnic minorities (Africans, Asians ,Eastern Europeans,etc) to volunteer to promote the word so that people will engage engage and get vaccinated. I’ld just get David Attenborough to do it. He’ saves the planet every week:-)

However, I thought I would do my bit to promote vaccination in a way the locals from the motherland may understand So on behalf of the people of Gods own Country…an ethnic minority I think, here is a message for the anti-vaxxers (No Offence intended)

“Don’t be a prick….Get One!” 🙂

(For the non English speakers there are many meanings of Prick)

Which one will you get offered. It may depend on where you are located, it seems that the big hubs are Astraveneca and the hosptials with the cold storage and close to or in the Hospitals

As for the effect on people who are immunosuppressed. I am still trying to find how long the adenoviral vector will produce protein. I am guessing as long as it is there. So if you are immunosuppressed and cannot get rid of the adenoviral vector you may be getting a sensitizing signal for longer…More T cells, more antibodies more protection. This needs to be looked at

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MouseDoctor

14 comments

  • “So on behalf of the people of Gods own Country…an ethic minority I think, here is a message for the anti-vaxxers (No Offence intended)”
    I suppose you meant to say “ethnic”?
    Are you implying that the UK is over-run by people of ethnic minorities?

    • Ha Ha I did say ethnic….the powers of being able to edit posts…p.s.
      Are you implying….No “Gods own Country” is Yorkshire they like to hear stuff blunt “say wot yer mean”:-)

      Actually there are 5.3 million people in Yorkshire larger than the population of Scotland, MD2 would say yeah and “most of them live in London” 🙂

    • The government advice is it is safe, will it.flare up MS? I don’t know the vaccine
      pioneers will tell us. There have been people.with MS on pfizer vaccine for a month. The Astrazeneca vaccine has now been tried by people with MS

  • Thanks once again MD; not least for the laugh out loud at the ‘don’t be a prick’
    Becoming sadly an unholy mess isn’t it – with EU threats of legal action, also do we worry that the over 65s won’t be protected and the time lapse between each jab – 🤦🏻‍♀️

    • The dont be a P***ck is my second T shirt…my first which I am wearing at the moment Says in little writting “If you can read this”…then in Big writing Stop being an inconsiderate A***hole, Move out of my F****ing airspace:-).

      As for the unholy mess of legal threats…yes its sad…That New Guinea has apparently only had 25 jabs in total…..but I guess we don’t mind if they the ban the export of Kuru (This is a Joke Apoloiges to readers from New Guinea. Actually the main exports are gold, copper, palm oil and coffee apparently). AZ vaccine is being produced at no profit otherwise, we would be waiting for 2 years after it is approved elsewhere for NICE to approve it:-). Therefore I am guessing UK people with MS can understand how contineal Europeans are feeling, as you have had to wait for along time after agents available in the EU. Maybe the solution is for AZ to give the EU the doses from the factories in the USA, after all, there is no indication that the FDA is going to approve the AZ vaccine any time soon:-).

      • Have to hope that the scales will be rebalanced somewhat by the good news about the latest jab approved – as per ProfG post.
        Oh n I’m appreciating yet more chuckles curtesy of your taste in T’shirts😄

        • More good news on the horizon J&J vaccine working too of one shot…Oh no maybe not, it is Jansen…….made in Belgium? Did we have shares in Sputnik V or Sinovac:-).

          PS If you think COVID-19 vaccine makes you sterile don’t go to Scarborough….there too many nuclear reactors there
          ..and the weather’s usually SH1

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